Wealth After 40 with Dalene Higgins

Bobbi:
Hi everyone and welcome to Fly Mom Fly. Today our guest, Dalene Higgins, shares her journey through the empty nest phase. After her daughter left home seven years ago, Dalene and her husband supported her financially and emotionally. The initial year was challenging, adjusting to their daughter's absence. But by the next year, they found their groove and adapted to a new routine. Their daughter also felt the impact of the empty nest, questioning what they did without her. Dalian's here today to share her experience, supporting her daughter financially and preparing her for independence after graduation. Hi, it is so lovely to have you here.

Dalene Higgins:
Yes, thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi:
Now what part of the country are you in?

Dalene Higgins:
I'm in Utah and specifically Provo, so that is south of Salt Lake City, which is our capital. So yeah.

Bobbi:
Oh, you know, this is one of the places on my bucket list. Sorry, where is that naughty phone? I forgot to turn that right down. That is not good. That is one of the places on my bucket list. I think it is so stunning, so beautiful. And I. we were going somewhere, I think we were flying somewhere and the opportunity was to connect with another flight in Salt Lake City and I was like, oh no, this is fantastic. I get to actually spend maybe an hour or two looking out the window and actually seeing Utah and then our plans got changed. So I'm yet to be at your beautiful state, but I can't wait to. However, we're not here to talk necessarily about Utah and traveling throughout the US. We're here to talk about your unique experience with your daughter. It did actually make me laugh when I just read that and it said, your daughter was wondering what on earth were you doing without her as if life

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah.

Bobbi:
is just all about me, mom and dad. Tell me

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah.

Bobbi:
about your experience initially and how you entered into this emptiness phase.

Dalene Higgins:
So, yeah, so I only have one child, so my daughter, and so I think that's kind of why it led to that. But I let her choose where she wanted to go, and so she chose to go five and a half hours away in another state, and she was a part of the marching band. And so I took her, you know, we took her, it was like 10 days before school actually started, but you know, she made, I says, you immediately have like 200 friends. So she wasn't going with anybody, she did not know anybody that was there. She was going on her own and prior to that, I was like, I can't wait for you to leave. You're just, you know, I don't know if the other moms experienced that, but I'm like, you have just got to leave the house. So we dropped her off and I balled the entire way home when we finally did leave, but we got her set up, you know, for a couple of days, made sure she was fine and transitioned okay. And then yeah, we came home and I kind of felt like, okay, now what? It's trying to find that. the new rhythm even though you're still doing. I was still working, my husband was still working, you know, it's like, but yet you're missing that piece of, you know, of, of whatever. And so it's like trying to find that new rhythm. And so I had a friend who shared that when her daughter left, that they did a Snapchat every night so that she could see her face and say good night. And I still do that. We still do that. Her dad does it in the morning and I do it at night, but it's like, seeing that face, even if you didn't talk to them, but seeing their face every night and you knew they were okay. So that got me through that first year. Other moms had shared, you know, the first year's hard, the first year's hard and made it to Christmas. And then it was the long dry, you know, cause there's not all the holidays and not all the coming down and stuff. But, you know, we just slowly plugged along and. So yeah, she didn't ask that question though, probably her second year. I was like, so what do you and dad do,

Bobbi:
Thank

Dalene Higgins:
you know,

Bobbi:
you.

Dalene Higgins:
all week or all the time with, and I'm like the same thing we did with you

Bobbi:
Yes.

Dalene Higgins:
were here, you know, we have dinner, we clean up, we do our things, we go to bed, you know, and like, there's not much more to it than that. So.

Bobbi:
I'm curious to ask, did your relationship with your husband change after she left? Meaning, because when your mom's a mom and dad's a dad, you're talking about mom and dad things all the time. How was it different when your daughter left home and you both were standing there as just grown up people in a relationship?

Dalene Higgins:
Well, you know, I think, thank goodness we both had our jobs so we could come home and quote, vent, right? So we shared a lot of that, but I found that we, like our conversations grew even more. So on our drives up to see her, I've had people say, so what do you do for the five hours? And I'm like, we just talk. There's no radio, there's no, you know, audio book, there's no podcast, there's no nothing going, it's just him and I talking. I really believe that we got, closer in a sense, as far as conversations, but not that we spent any more time together. I'm a reader, he's a TV watcher. So, you know, we would do dinner together, finish, he'd go downstairs, I'd go upstairs, and then we can come together right before bed. But, you know, it just, yeah, it was, because growing up with them, you have that mom part, and you

Bobbi:
Mm-hmm.

Dalene Higgins:
have that dad part. And I think that first year was that realization of, you know, there was a lot of things he made me do because he didn't want to be the bad guy, right? Daddy's little girl.

Bobbi:
Yeah.

Dalene Higgins:
And so there was a lot of like, you know, like I said, realizations, that clarity. And I'm like, oh my gosh, you made me be the bad person, you know,

Bobbi:
Thank you.

Dalene Higgins:
and I didn't do it out of spite. I was just like, hey, I finally forget. And he kind of grumbled, you know, kind of laughed and kind of, you know. And I think all of that, we just kind of worked out. And then my daughter continued kind of a different role with us. So she would tell me some things and him other things. So we learned we had to communicate about her to get the full story,

Bobbi:
Right.

Dalene Higgins:
which is totally fine. I think that's very normal for children, right? You lean on mom for one thing and dad for another. And

Bobbi:
Cool.

Dalene Higgins:
so, there was a lot to communicate and we really enjoyed it. Um, so yeah, we, in fact, my daughter made a comment. I don't know how soon after she had left. She says, you and dad hold hands a lot more. You're a lot more touchy feely with me gone. And I don't know if it's because she was gone. Right. And

Bobbi:
Yeah.

Dalene Higgins:
so there's not that, not that she was, you know, blocking us or anything. You know, formally, I think it's just something that naturally happened. And it

Bobbi:
Yeah.

Dalene Higgins:
was just like, okay, she's gone and it is just us too. And, you know, I did, I'm like, you know, I guess we do. I guess we do. We, you know, never been a lot of PDA, not that it was a ton of PDA, but just a little more handholding, a

Bobbi:
No.

Dalene Higgins:
little more of those soft touches, and just realizing that, like, we were closing in the gap,

Bobbi:
Yeah,

Dalene Higgins:
the gap that she had.

Bobbi:
I totally agree with what you've just said. I noticed that once I got over my initial grief, and it did take months, I realized that my husband had become more of a friend. He was always my friend and he's

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah.

Bobbi:
always been a great guy. However, there was another focus in the house. And when it was just him, One day I remember looking at him thinking, wow, we're even better mates than we were, you know, six months ago. It was different now because we only had each other to focus on. And I think that's the thing with the whole holding hands and all that sort of stuff that I noticed that too, because my focus wasn't always on three dogs and a child. And when we were back in Australia, three dogs and two children, and actually then three children, it was really just on him. So you do become closer. I saw him in a little bit of a different light, I guess a more deeper understanding of who he was and how much more we were connecting. I thought it was really quite profound. What happens with me though, unfortunately, is that because I go and see my children back in Australia, and I saw one of my children in Hawaii in March, it kind of sets me back in that respect. I have this closeness with my husband, and then I'll go and see my kids, and then... I'll be mourning my kids again and that grief and loss and those feelings will come up,

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah

Bobbi:
and then it takes time again to get back into the rhythm. So it's like I'm going in circle after circle all the time. But anyway,

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah.

Bobbi:
I'm really glad that you're in that space with your husband because there is such an opportunity to forge a deeper connection.

Dalene Higgins:
Oh, definitely. Yeah. And you know, I share that with people. I'm like, Oh, you're gonna head into empty nest. And I said, the first year is very weird. And it's because you're trying to find that footing without anybody in the house, you know, and then it just says something that you really, yeah, you really kind of, you know, create that connection and it is you. And then when she comes home, it's like, okay, you're throwing us off course here.

Bobbi:
Yes.

Dalene Higgins:
And how do we manage this now, right?

Bobbi:
Yeah,

Dalene Higgins:
So,

Bobbi:
that's

Dalene Higgins:
yeah.

Bobbi:
a bit of a delicate area, I think, because we want them so much. Well, at least I shouldn't say we because that might be generalizing.

Dalene Higgins:
Okay.

Bobbi:
But I want my kids so much back in my space to see them. But when

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah,

Bobbi:
they're in my space,

Dalene Higgins:
yeah.

Bobbi:
it's like, hang on, this has been totally mine. I mean, Frank works

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah.

Bobbi:
12 hours a day. So it really is my space and I'm coordinating things. And he's really good with just falling into my home routine because I work from home. However, when the kids come, I really have to be mindful to not let the little things become big things and be more mindful of this is what you were grieving. You were grieving the loss of this. So be really present in this moment. Things can be cleaned up, put away, whatever at another time, but just really focus on the fact. that she is with you now and remember all those nights you were falling asleep thinking of those girls not being with you. So it's the gift is in the now. This is one of the good old days so to speak.

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah, yeah, it's very true. It's it's like learning to ebb and flow,

Bobbi:
Yes.

Dalene Higgins:
you know, and once you've gotten over that first initial, right, and you're like, okay, this is good. And then they come home and it's like, yeah, and I think exactly I loved what you said, like it's living in the now.

Bobbi:
Mm-hmm.

Dalene Higgins:
So okay, she's only here for three days or four days or whatever it is. She my daughter's not typically her much longer. And it's like, okay, just go with the flow. yes, it's not, you're not on your same routine. You're not keeping all the same things and then it will go back and it's fine. So yeah, it definitely was a learning curve

Bobbi:
Hmm.

Dalene Higgins:
and a growing curve, you know, and to still, and I think that's where she was like when she said, you know, what do you do without me? And it's like... Well, okay, we still think of you and we still know you're there. And I still, you know, we were chatting at the time, like probably three, four times a week. It's

Bobbi:
Yeah.

Dalene Higgins:
not like she had just gone cold, you know? And I just think back and I'm like, man, you know, when, if I would have left home for college, which I did not, but if I did, my parents wouldn't have had the cell phones, right? It's that long distance calling. It's that, you know, very limited. And so I was very grateful to have that, but even that one suggestion from that one mom, saying a Snapchat because it's their face, you know they're okay instead of just a text, you know, and I'm like, and that really, really did help. That really did help. And like you said, that greeting process, definitely a good six, eight months, you know, you're into that second semester of college and you're thinking, okay, I think I can figure this out on my own. And so, yeah, it just is, it's crazy. And then building that new, really new relationship, I think it's you know, building upon that relationship

Bobbi:
Yeah.

Dalene Higgins:
with your spouse, you know, and like you said, my husband's my very best friend. And then now it's like, oh my gosh, you're even my more, you know,

Bobbi:
Yeah,

Dalene Higgins:
we're my best friend.

Bobbi:
yeah, because

Dalene Higgins:
So.

Bobbi:
we're relying on their support so much more. What

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah.

Bobbi:
I found interesting with Lucy was that she grieves as much as I do. And I mentioned Lucy a lot because we only brought one of our children over with us. She was going into ninth grade when we moved over here five years ago. The others were all at university back home. They were growing up or working, living their own lives. But. So that's why I talk about Lucy's experience a lot, but she still grieves. Now she's been home, it'll be two years in November, but she's only just about to turn 20. So she went back at 18 and a half and she values family, she values connection. She did value Sydney and Australia a whole lot more than Ohio. That's why she went back because that's where she felt she was. really suited to and that's absolutely okay but it's hard on me watching her grieve as well that's when it just really pulls at my heartstrings but the blessing in disguise with that is that I'm able to share when I'm down I and it's not a lot of the time but I will really say oh I just uh like I have this water bottle and she it's just one of those ones that you would recycle but when she was here last time she wrote her name on it in a sharpie so other people wouldn't drink from it and when she left it and then went back to the airport to fly home and I kept this photo because I'm that type of person and um it's up in my pantry and I said to her I just there are real experiences that I have when I just look at something and I can't get rid of it because that's a part of you. So we talk about

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah.

Bobbi:
our grief together which I think is so important and with my other daughter as well we share the difficulties. It's a little bit different because Emily was not over here with us but to your point of social media and just access we have to each other. I lived in the UK for five years when I was in my 20s. Now that's 30 years ago. And we were doing aerograms and very expensive long distance calls. And I cannot tell you how grateful I am for technology. One thing that my husband bought me for Valentine's Day last year was a Facebook portal. And it's one of those

Dalene Higgins:
out.

Bobbi:
devices that you can charge and carry from room to room. And it's so fantastic because The camera is so good and it follows you around the room. So I can just be preparing dinner or doing what I need to do and I'll be able to chat with the girls. And as I said to my husband, it was something like $170. So it was a little bit pricey, but I said, this saves me going to therapy. If I

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah.

Bobbi:
can have this, and she rings all the time and my other daughter rings probably once a week or something like that. So. Yeah, look, I absolutely agree. Technology has really saved us and provided a much better emptiness experience from when our parents had to go through it.

Dalene Higgins:
Yes, yes. And I think the initial, like you're saying your daughter's only 20, I think it's that initial, we worry as moms. We've always been there, right? We're right there, we can comfort them immediately, we can support them right face to face. And as they're going to this next phase of life, it's, they're on their own and we hope they're gonna be okay. And So we have to change and find different ways like you're saying with that, or with the Snapchat to have that connection and have that comfort and that security for them as well as for you, right?

Bobbi:
Yeah.

Dalene Higgins:
I think it goes both ways. I think it goes both ways,

Bobbi:
It

Dalene Higgins:
so.

Bobbi:
really does. And getting into a routine like you do with your daughter with Snapchat, that's so comforting. It's something small. It's not going to intrude on her studies or her social life or your career or anything like that. But you just get this one a day where you know someone is thinking of you and respects you enough as her Mom to be able to give that and you give that back to her. So I think that's really special.

Dalene Higgins:
Yes, yeah, it's been so good. It's been so good. And yeah, seven years and it's just still going.

Bobbi:
I love that. Now, she has been gone seven years and you are here today to give us some advice and information on how you coped with your daughter, still being financially dependent on you, and then gradually moving away from that. So are you able to shed

Dalene Higgins:
Yes,

Bobbi:
some light on that?

Dalene Higgins:
yes, yes I am. So when she went off, she stayed in a dorm. And so I told her, I said, I will provide all of your basic needs, right? Your housing, your cafeteria plan, because I don't want you to starve. And I said, but any entertainment, any fun, that's on you.

Bobbi:
Mm-hmm.

Dalene Higgins:
You need to find a job, you need to provide for that. So that didn't put so much pressure on her as far as, oh my gosh, I have to get so much money and the net take away from our studies. And so we did that year one. And then year two, I said, do you wanna pay for fuel or do you wanna pay for clothing?

Bobbi:
Mm-hmm.

Dalene Higgins:
She chose clothing and I just was like, okay, we're gonna slowly do this. And so year three, I ended up buying a townhome for her because rent was just so crazy. And I said, I'm tired of paying rent. I wanna sell something, get my money back. So we did townhome. She says, mom, I will pay utilities. So that was the third year that was her, and it's just realizing that these, supporting her and helping her through, she still had a job. She had a job all over years, very part-time, but worked around her schedule to school. And, you know, just slowly to where we didn't provide any support anymore. You know, it's like, I really hung on to that gas bill, though, the fuel bill. I'm like, because if I asked you to come home, I want you to not say, Oh, I don't have the money for gas. You know, it's like, nope, nope. So there was, you know, a lot of that, that I was, you know, even though I did year two, give her the option, you know? And then after that, I'm like, Oh, I hope she doesn't take that. You know,

Bobbi:
Yeah.

Dalene Higgins:
so it was, it's just. to grow and then financially grow on their own, to be able to start providing with themselves, you know, for themselves. And so she now has a job. She has a career job. You know, that's what they all hope to do after

Bobbi:
Yes.

Dalene Higgins:
college. And, you know, COVID set her back. So it was a few more years, but she was able to find a great job. And so now she's navigating life on her own.

Bobbi:
Wow.

Dalene Higgins:
And she just bought her a car by herself. We've just been providing decent cars, nothing fancy that got back and forth. Um, and she loved them. And then she's like, okay, I've got me a job. I want to go buy me a car, but she wanted a specific car. So she did the mom thing, me thing, and she made a spreadsheet and, you know, put it all the information in there. Cause she was really only looking at one model.

Bobbi:
Yeah.

Dalene Higgins:
And so then she was looking at the years. So I was helping her through that and like. you're going to understand where the break even point is, you know, and it was really interesting. So she bought herself a Subaru BRZ, which is a little sports car, two seater. Yeah, there's a backseat, but nobody can sit back there if you

Bobbi:
Yes.

Dalene Higgins:
know two seaters, you know. And as she was looking at the spreadsheet, it was really weird. It was like, um, 17th and the 18th, something was funky with them. They were, had weird mileage. They had weird prices. So I'm like, okay, you've either And so she did, she spent about four months and then headed out on her own. She's like, I'm going to the dealership. I'm like, okay. And then she calls me, I'm at the dealership. I'm like,

Bobbi:
That's so

Dalene Higgins:
okay.

Bobbi:
cute.

Dalene Higgins:
But she's like, yeah, it's just these huge steps. And financially, it's like, you can start teaching them little by little. Of course, now she's like, well, how am I going to be able to afford anything? And I'm like, we all felt like that. In

Bobbi:
Yeah.

Dalene Higgins:
the beginning, it's tough. You have so many large expenses coming at you between 25, 35. You've got cars, house, then you'll have kids, and then all of the things. And so just showing her that little by little she can get there. So.

Bobbi:
Was this something that you started practicing with her before she left home for college, like with her allowance? Was it like, if you want a cell phone, you need to maybe put $5 a week towards it? Did you do anything like that when she was still in your home?

Dalene Higgins:
So, going way back to when she was like six or seven, both my husband and I worked and CDs were still a thing, right? So we didn't have any of this streaming music. So we'd be at the store and he'd be like, oh, I need to get me a new CD. And I'm like, okay, I want one too. And then she goes, well, can I have one? And I was like, oh. So I instituted an allowance at that point. point and yeah, it would be something like that if she said, you know, well, I, I want one and I'd be like, that comes out of your own money. And so she did, she had money that she earned and then she would put towards things as far as cell phones. You know, I didn't really do specific like that, but I talked about saving, you know, what is your future going to be? What do you want to do? You know, going to college, you know, you're going to have to pay for your entertainment. Do you want to work that hard or do you want to focus on school? And so just helping her. you know, look at it in every stage. So when I started my business as a money coach, I call her a lot. I'm like, so what did I tell you about this? What did I, you know, cause I did it over so many years that it was been this coaching program for, you know, what? Probably 15 years now. And it's just those little things going through. So yeah.

Bobbi:
My question

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah.

Bobbi:
was going to be, are you in finance? But

Dalene Higgins:
Hahaha

Bobbi:
money coach, so tell me about what that involves and how long have you been doing that?

Dalene Higgins:
So I started my business one year ago. I retired at the age of 50. My husband retired three years prior to that. So after Empty Nest, maybe we got crazy, but no, we both retired. I started my business as a money coach and my focus is on Gen X. So 40 plus, helping them focus on those things that they need to be able to close out the rest of those years, to be able to. know, bring retirement to fruition comfortably and happily and still be able to support their kids if they want to. So

Bobbi:
Yeah.

Dalene Higgins:
I focus on the day to day money, the budgeting, the saving, and then, you know, share with them and teach them about investing. But, you know, that is a financial advisor and a financial planner, but,

Bobbi:
I see.

Dalene Higgins:
you know, I can educate them. Yeah, educate them on all of that. So when they go to work with somebody, they have more confidence. in what they're hearing, what they're asking, and what they're needing. So yeah.

Bobbi:
I love that because that's something that I would need if I was going to speak to a planner. And I see you as you said, am I right in saying you help with you said you help with the day to day finances

Dalene Higgins:
Mm-hmm.

Bobbi:
and making sure you have enough for that week to what pay your utilities, do your food shopping, whatever bills.

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah.

Bobbi:
Okay, that sounds really good because I know for some of us it can get a bit we can get a bit in over our heads sometimes with finances. How do you approach that? Is that something that you were taught how to do? Did you have a previous career in finance? How did you become to be this person?

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah, so I have a bachelor's in accounting and a master's in business administration. And for the last 15 years, I worked with law enforcement officials

Bobbi:
Right?

Dalene Higgins:
and I helped them budget. So street cops learning how to budget, you know, in the right ways with the right rules. And so that's what I did for the last 15 years. But I also use my experience. So when I was 35, I realized I had the option to retire as early as actually 48.

Bobbi:
Yeah.

Dalene Higgins:
And I say it's an option because at the minute you retire, you lose 40% of your income.

Bobbi:
Mm-hmm.

Dalene Higgins:
So I knew I needed to really, you know, dial in, have that plan to be able to act on that option. It wasn't, it wasn't like, oh, okay, it's here and I can do it. It's something I really had to plan for. So I spent 15 years really, you know, dialing into my personal finances, learning personal finance topics. you know, educating myself, teaching myself and funneling my money where it needed to go. So about three months before I actually pulled the plug, um, I was like, Oh, you know, there's always that fear. Can we do it? Can we do it? Just like when you're buying a home or buying something that's big. And so I was looking at my paycheck and I did the percentage and I was only taking home 57%.

Bobbi:
All right.

Dalene Higgins:
So I'm like, I can live on 60% of my income.

Bobbi:
Yes,

Dalene Higgins:
And

Bobbi:
yes.

Dalene Higgins:
so, you know, just learning those things and learning how to you know, look at him and where to look and how to understand that. And, you know, age 35, my daughter was eight. So we still had all of the expensive years, you know, we had just bought our house, you know, we had cars, we had trailers, we had, you know, recreational vehicles. So we still did all of the things, but really keeping focus that it was going to serve us and it was going to help us in the future as well. So.

Bobbi:
I love that you're providing this service for GenXers because just thinking about it, when we get to our age, we assume that everyone else knows what to do and we should be knowing what to do. Shouldn't we have learned this 30 years ago or so when we left tertiary education? Like, why haven't we gotten our act together? So I've never really heard of someone focusing on our generation. However, there are people who really need that resource. So how do we find you daily? Do you have, are you on social media? How do we find all your information?

Dalene Higgins:
All right. So yeah, so my company is Elevate Finances.

Bobbi:
Mm-hmm.

Dalene Higgins:
So on Instagram, I'm Elevate underscore finances and my website, which has all of that and more is, um, elevate finances.us.

Bobbi:
Yes.

Dalene Higgins:
And I have a podcast called wealthy after 40. So yeah, helping us older people, you know, put it together. We never really had that formal. So come file, follow me, come check everything out. And yeah, if you're feeling like you need the need, jump on a free call. I offer free calls to discuss what you're looking for and if I can help you. And if not, I'm in that financial space,

Bobbi:
Yes.

Dalene Higgins:
I can refer you to somebody.

Bobbi:
Well, I love that because you are an empty nest star, you are a mom, you're just like us, but you can help people in our phase of life. And it's easier for us, I believe, to connect with someone who is like us. So I wanna say thank you so much for coming on board today and giving us great

Dalene Higgins:
Thank you.

Bobbi:
information.

Dalene Higgins:
Yes, thank you.

Bobbi:
And your daughter, she's doing really well now.

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah, she works at the state prison. So,

Bobbi:
Wow, wow, that's

Dalene Higgins:
yeah,

Bobbi:
a big job.

Dalene Higgins:
yeah.

Bobbi:
Well, all the

Dalene Higgins:
Yeah,

Bobbi:
very best

Dalene Higgins:
so.

Bobbi:
to you. I hope to get to Utah at some point, and I'll, or

Dalene Higgins:
Thank

Bobbi:
Provo,

Dalene Higgins:
you.

Bobbi:
you said it was, the town is Provo?

Dalene Higgins:
Yes. Yep.

Bobbi:
Fantastic. Well, I hope

Dalene Higgins:
So.

Bobbi:
to actually meet you in person one day, but thank you so much for

Dalene Higgins:
awesome.

Bobbi:
jumping on board and educating us and to everyone else who's listening, thank you and we'll connect with you next time.