The Empty Nester's Guide to Book Publishing with Candice Davis.

Bobbi: 0:34

Our guest today is Candice Davis, who will share her unique journey through the empty nest phase. The biggest challenge for Candice has been the physical distance that now separates her from her daughters, Despite staying connected through daily conversations. Candice longs to be more present for important moments in their lives. Towards the end of our podcast chat, Candice will invite empty nesters to share their wisdom and stories in their own book, offering a free resource called Jump Start your Book to help get them started. Join us for an inspiring conversation about the empty nest journey and the power of storytelling. Candice, it's so lovely to meet you. Thank you for having me, Bobbi. I really appreciate it. Oh look, you're so welcome. I love you already. Thanks for our listeners, because people will so relate. The pet Candace came to jump onto the recording and her computer decided that it would start updating. That would probably be one of my worst nightmares, as you said, candace, because this is the first time we've met, so you don't know who you're going to get on the other end. That would have me Sorry if this is not an American saying that would have me shitting bricks. I would probably be sweating and turn up to the podcast of Recept. So I'm so glad you know. That's a real icebreaker, I think, for us, because, as I mentioned to you pre-pressing record, my husband calls me Lucy or Ball or Rupi Riccardo when all this strange stuff happens. So I want to thank you for persevering through that intense moment and I think that you're going to have a lot to offer us today and I can't wait to hear your story. So, if we can go back to the beginning of your emptiness journey and if you can share the story about your girls leaving the nest, okay, yes, so.

Candice: 2:30

I homeschooled my girls for most of their lives until they reached the upper school level. So they went to school for ninth grade on, but before that we were home all day together, every day, and it was really lovely. Like it was wonderful. This is pre-pandemic. Before people had that crazy homeschooling experience. Of course it was not like that Super relaxed, way less work than putting your kids in school and it just gave us so much time together. So that was wonderful. We built all these little, like you know, secret stories between us, inside jokes, things like that. That just like made us not friends because we are still mother and daughter, but we had a friendship to our relationship. And then when my first daughter, who's seven and a half years older than her sister, went to college, she moved clear across the country. So we were living on the West Coast of the United States at the time and she moved to the East Coast and that was like it was painful. I mean, it's just 3,000 miles away from me at the time. She was a little young for her to be going away from college a little bit early and I was scared. I was just really scared because we had been together all the time. So fortunately my husband got a job in the same city where she was in school and we moved and we followed right behind her. So that was great. So we were in the same city again. But then when my younger daughter reached the age to go to university, she moved the other way. So she left the East Coast and went to the West Coast, and so it was so difficult. And now they're older, they're both done with college. One is living in about six hour drive from me, six or seven hours. The other one's living in Canada, on the West Coast of Canada. I'm on the East Coast of the US, so it's so hard to have them that far. We talk every day pretty much, which is great but also a little crazy making right, Because they don't always call when it's convenient. For me. I work from home, so they feel like they can call anytime, which they really can, if they really need something. But it is difficult to have that physical distance when they either have a problem or when they have something really great going on and I can't be there.

Bobbi: 4:34

You know what I need to be doing at the moment, Because I'm getting teary and I feel like I need to fly to wherever you are and we need to have five o'clock wine this afternoon because my story is your story. So my girls are both in Sydney and I'm in Cincinnati and just the bond that you shared you were telling me about before when you homeschooled I was a single mom to them for five years before I met Frank. We've been together 10 years but I'm really resonating with what you're saying and that close bond and I get the fact that, yeah, we do Facebook Messenger. I've got, for those that will be watching this, I've got one of these Facebook portals, which is so good because I can carry it around the house with me. I do laugh when you say that you work from home and they call at inconvenient times, because sorry, Lucy and Emily, if you're calling me, but there are time when I'm like knee deep in something or I haven't even had my morning coffee and they're 14 hours apart, so it's evening for them and they're just ready for a chat and I'm waking up with sleep in my eyes and messy hair, but it's like I press that button Hi, because I can't. I keep reminding myself and I don't know if you've come across a lot of empty nest moms who say the same thing. But I wish my children would contact me more and I'm really, really aware that I am blessed that they call me, so I don't want to ever give the impression I'll always answer. If I really can't talk. I'll let them know that. Wow, yeah, I think one day I'm going to meet you for a five o'clock wine. Can I'm?

Candice: 6:09

here for it, I'm here for it and I agree with you. You don't want them to feel like they're unwelcome to call or interrupting you. I will never forget. I saw one of my favorite authors speaking Toni Morrison, great American novelist, and she said children need to feel like you're happy to see them. Right, so they want your face to light up when they walk into a room. They need to feel like walking in the room is the best thing ever. And even though our children are adults, they still need to feel that and it is that Like it's not fake, it's genuine. We're super excited when they call or FaceTime us or you know what, if it's Facebook Quota, whatever it is. But even if we're tired, even if we're not having the best moment at the time, we still give that to them because we want them to know that they're always just like welcome to be a part of our work.

Bobbi: 6:56

That's so true. How did your girls go emotionally when they left home? Did they have any struggles? I've noticed some in my youngest Tell me about their emotional state and their challenges when they left.

Candice: 7:10

They really did. So. My older daughter is 32 now, but when she went to college she did not call home hardly at all, right? So, and when I would come to visit or she would come home to visit, her big struggle was she really wanted to be an independent grownup, right, and so she would come home. And you are an adult, but it's still my house and so I still have sort of boundaries and guidelines. So her big struggle was like getting away from being a teenager and going into adulthood, even to the point where her junior year she was making choices that I didn't agree with, right, I just thought these are not smart choices. And she said, well, this is what I want to do. I said, well, then you can pay your own bills, right, because we were helping her pay her rent at the time. And she said, fine, and she got a job and she worked full time while going to school full time, and it was great for her, right. But her struggle was getting to that independence. My younger daughter, her struggle was really more that she's so much like me. We're introverted, we're INTJ people and so building those relationships in a whole new city where there weren't many people. She's a ballet dancer and so she was in a ballet training program and so getting her BFA, and so those kids came from all over the country and even from other countries and she didn't feel like she had a lot in common with a lot of them. So really just trying to navigate those relationships worked out fine, right, it worked. She had roommate issues and things like that. The one thing that really I could not take is when they would call me and I would answer the phone and someone would be crying on the other. That for me is that's just. I can't handle that.

Bobbi: 8:47

Yeah, I've had that too. That is particularly hard, I think. How did you go with letting them, I guess, transition into adult food? They were so far away. I think I would really freak out a little bit about that. My eldest daughter is 25 and she stayed in Sydney when we moved over here because she had university to go to. She's nearly finished her psych degree. And my youngest one came over here. She was with us and then after nearly four years moved back. She became an adult and wanted to pursue a career back home. They both live with my sister over there. The eldest one has like an in-laws accommodation out the back so she has her independence, and my younger one is very happy to have a room in Auntie Rosie's house because they're close and they vibe. I said to the youngest there's no way I would have allowed you. I mean allowing them, they're adults. And I said to her it would freak me out because I'd be so worried if you were just going back without having developed a lot of the independent life skills yet, if you were just to get flat somewhere and rent somewhere. So how was it with your girls going to college? I'm guessing they had accommodation on campus.

Candice: 10:05

They did they both did, but they only had so my younger daughter. They only allowed freshmen to live on campus. But even after that she moved into an apartment with friends and it was fine. We did focus a lot on developing those life skills while they were at home and we also focused a lot on saying okay, even though you're in a city and we're not there and maybe there's no family there, let's find some people who, in an emergency, you could call. So this is my friend. We were in a fellowship program together. She lives in your city. Let's meet her so you can call her if you have an emergency. My husband has friends in the other city. Meet them. But when my daughter moved to Canada, I don't know anybody in Vancouver, bc. So that was. But she was a little older, she was about 22 or three at that time. So still, that was hard for me but she managed. I mean, I just had to. I said to them why do you guys keep moving farther and farther away from me? And they said my younger daughter said well, you're the one who raised us to be independent. And I was like ugh.

Bobbi: 11:05

No matter what we do to raise them, there is still that concern. We're always going to worry about our kids. My dad passed away last year at 90 and I'm 52. And up to the very end he would still treat us as if we were his little girls and not EBS. But he would always be oh I love, how can I help you? And even as he was ailing and failing, he would still aim to step up as that dad figure. So it's real, we're so conditioned in our role that we do have to modify it. We do become remote mums, but we will always still mother. So tell me about the steps you took to transition successfully from a mom who had so much day-to-day interaction with her girls to one that is now thriving with a business of your own.

Candice: 12:01

Yeah. So when my first daughter went away I still had my younger daughter at home, so it didn't feel like a big transition. But when the younger one left, I have to say we partied for a year. My husband and I had. We just like had a great time for that first year. And honestly part of that for me was like distracting me, like we went out a lot more, but it was distracting me from thinking about is she okay? And when we dropped her off at college the younger one there was a parting ceremony where they, you know, kind of said welcome kids, goodbye parents. And then they said to the kids we don't want you to call your parents for the first couple of weeks because we want you to adjust to school. And I wanted to scream because I was like call your mommy every day. But of course she took their approach right. So my husband and I really did focus on just really having fun that year no more driving kids to school, no more going to, you know, dance recitals and stuff like that, just enjoying each other. So that was really great. And then I had to come down to reality a little bit. But building my business really happened for me when the last one went off and she actually works for me now, so that worked out really well.

Bobbi: 13:09

I love that. So tell me how you started the business. Were you always in this type of industry in relation to literature, book publishing? Tell me about your start.

Candice: 13:21

Yeah, I have loved books since I could like just lift my head up like my parents were reading to us when we were in the womb, right. So I've just always loved the books. But as a kid I really didn't believe I could be a writer. I did know many. I knew one writer in my childhood who had written a book and I just didn't think it was a possibility. And then when I started homeschooling my girls I would say I was in my late 20s, early 30s I was living close to LA, in Orange County. I wanted to have something for myself. So I just started taking writing classes. At that time I was studying literary fiction because that's my first love. I ended up doing lots of great workshops. And then I went through a divorce and I needed to make some money. Yeah, then I was like, okay, what am I gonna do? I need to make money, right. And a friend introduced me to a chef who wanted to write a cookbook. She'd been on one of those competition TV shows and she wanted to make as much out of that moment as she could. And she said well, I'm a single mom, you're a single mom, I think we could do this together. And she hired me to co-write her cookbook. Took us like three years to sell it because that was right at the recession, but we sold it. We sold it to a major publisher and I thought maybe this is where my livelihood is gonna be. And I did a lot of experimenting. I did a lot of ghost writing, co-writing, editing, and what I found is that I do love editing but I also really love coaching. Women are most of my clients, but some men too. I love coaching like just really smart women to share their experiences in it.

Bobbi: 15:13

So what types of women do you come across that come to you for coaching and want to write a book? Is there a theme, is it just totally random? And you get everything across the spectrum.

Candice: 15:25

It's not totally random. So I don't get many fiction writers. Even though I love them so much I've been welcome them with open arms. I don't get as many fiction writers. I mostly get women who they have experience and a story that they wanna put together and share their knowledge, experience and a story in a way that will help other people. So they absolutely wanna get something out of it for themselves, even if I have to coax out of them what it is that they wanna get for themselves. Maybe they're speakers and they wanna do more speaking, Maybe they wanna just get their message out. But they have something they want to share, either in a memoir or the type of book that teaches people personal development or professional development. That's most of my clients. But interestingly, after you and I connected, I went back and thought through my people and I would say probably 50% of the women that I coach are empty nesters and it's because they've gotten to a point where they have time to write a book.

Bobbi: 16:22

Yes, what might be the reason or reasons that people don't make a start with this, if it's something they have always thought about doing?

Candice: 16:32

It's just fear. It's nothing other than fear, and it's fear of rejection, right? So either I'm gonna start doing this and tell people I'm writing a book and then I'm not gonna finish and people are gonna think, wow, what a loser. She said she was gonna do it and she didn't do it. Or are you gonna do it and people aren't gonna like and it's not gonna sell and no one's gonna want it. Because I used to think it was a lack of information. But the information is out there, like there are a million books written on how to write a book a million of them. There's no lack of YouTube videos. I post content all the time on every social media channel. How to write a book. I have a podcast. The first 10 episodes walk you through the steps of writing a book. So the information is out there, but people are afraid that if they take action, it's not going to get the result that they want, and that idea of how bad that's gonna feel can really keep people stuck.

Bobbi: 17:23

I'm guessing from who I am. I think that it would be easier to write nonfiction than fiction.

Candice: 17:30

It just depends on the person. It really depends. I met this lovely woman maybe late last year, late in 2022, and she's probably 24, 25 years old and she had written an incredible sci-fi novel, incredible sci-fi novel, so she hired me to edit, to coach her through like revising it and edit it for her. But fiction came easily to her. So I think it just depends on the person and your preferences.

Bobbi: 17:59

Yeah, it really does, because my way of doing it is that it has to spark joy within. There is no way I can put pen to paper, although I'm typing, if I'm not purging it from my heart space. That's the only place I can do it from. If someone told me to write a manual about something else or a story about an engineer Sorry, that sounds dreadful, but my husband's an engineer and, I think, the president of a company, but he's got an engineering degree and I just think his work is so boring. Sorry, frank, but I'm using you as an example. But if someone asked me to write a story about an engineer, I couldn't because it's not shiny, sparkly enough, it's not igniting my heart space. So I guess that is the key, and some people come to you and the key to them starting is finding their inner joy.

Candice: 18:59

I think it is. I think people most people are under the idea that writing becomes a painful task, and I blame our school system for that right, because it's not made to be fun and pleasurable when we're in school. For most of us it's like this task that's arduous, and so many people have had either teachers or professors or employers tell them they're not good writers and they internalize that and they believe that. So, yes, I would love to help people find the joy of it. Right, you should be delighted in what you're producing, but that doesn't mean it's not work. It's still work to get in on the page, but we enjoy other work. There's other work that we do that we enjoy, and most of my clients are entrepreneurs and they are doing work that they really love, and those books align with that. So, definitely, finding that delight in what you're producing and giving yourself the freedom to create something completely different, like a client asked me recently, well, I was thinking of doing an essay collection with my poetry and I'm like, okay, so do it. But she feels like, because other people aren't doing it, that she can't do it. So just allow yourself the freedom to do it your way For the first time writer.

Bobbi: 20:07

Would you suggest them going down the self-publishing Kindle Direct publishing path, or should they be seeking out a literary agent and looking at publishing houses?

Candice: 20:19

So I have clients who do both. So I have clients who take the traditional publishing route. With traditional publishing we're only talking about nonfiction for our conversation. With traditional publishing you're going to have to write a book proposal first and you're going to have to basically sell that proposal to an agent and then the agent's going to have to sell it to a publisher and that process could take a year or two or never happen. So I've had friends who pitched for and they're brilliant writers, brilliant who pitched for several years and never sold their book. So it's not guaranteed that just because you're pitching that you're going to sell it or that you're even going to get an agent. My clients who choose to pursue that path anyway generally already have a pretty significant platform, so they know that they can get a decent, maybe a six-figure $120,000 advance. That sounds glorious, right, but that advance has paid out over three years. That's not a lot. And your agent takes 15% off the top and then you've got to pay taxes on it. So it's not a lot of money left after it's spread out over three years. But for some of them they just want the cashier of saying this big publisher picked my book and it's important to them. It helps their businesses. Most of my clients probably 75% take the independent publishing route. They go to a self-publishing services company that helps them produce a beautiful book. They get it up on Amazon, they get it selling on Barnes Noble. Some of them will go so far as to really make the effort to get their book into independent bookstores because they believe in supporting them. But those people either don't want to do the work of building a huge platform because it is a lot of work and that is what traditional publishers are mostly looking for or they just want their book to come out in this lifetime. They don't want to wait two or three years to be published. And some people think that well, if I get a traditional publisher, they'll help me promote my book. They will not. They won't. I don't know how many ways I can say they don't. I think they are still responsible for promoting and marketing your book. That is on the author.

Bobbi: 22:20

Right. I would love to ask you about Red Flags to look out for when it comes to connecting with a self-publishing services or service or business. I got scammed earlier this year and I was linked with a company that said they were affiliated with Amazon and KDP and they weren't. I found this out after spending three months with them and really not getting anywhere with my book. I didn't know the KDP don't even edit books but this service said that they did everything and they said they were Amazon, KDP, they have the website all the same fonts, same colors. So it was really, really deceptive. And it was only when I went on to a self-publishing support group on Facebook and I said well, this company has had my book and have been editing it for three months and I keep getting it back with mistakes and they send me back 20 pages a week and some of the moderator of that group jumped in and said it's a scam, they're a scam. And then I after that looked on the Better Business Bureau and found out other people had had the same thing. So I would really love, if you can, to share some red flags about what we need to be checking and looking for when we're linking with a service such as this.

Candice: 23:50

Oh for sure. And let me just say you are not the first person I've talked to has had that experience at all. I mean, I talk, and it's not necessarily even KDP, pretending to be KDP affiliated, but there's so much Because it's an easy. People are easy targets when they're trying to publish a book. It's something you're passionate about, it's something you really want to get out there. It's an easy target and there are lots of disreputable companies out there taking advantage of it. When you are an independent author, you're not going after a traditional deal and you're doing all this yourself. You have two different paths. You can choose just to go to a self-publishing services company or a hybrid company. I'll just tell you right now I'm not a fan of hybrid companies. It's not my and I have friends that own and run them and I love you friends, but that's just not my favorite thing. So with the self-publishing services company, everything belongs to you. It's published under your imprints or your company name, you own the ISBN, you get the royalties paid directly to you. You never have to deal with that company again, unless you want to, after they've done the work for your book. And the work for your book includes your cover design your layout, design, perhaps helping you get it uploaded to the right places, making sure you have an e-book version, perhaps doing an audio book version, if that's what you want. Straight services you pay them a fee and that's it. You're done. Their services are probably between $1,200 and $2,000, but that does not include editing. That does not include editing. So if they have add-on editing services, you can add it, or you just go to an editor on your own. Hybrid companies are trying to sort of bridge the gap between the self-publishing services company which gives the basic services and I work with them all the time and I have great experiences which give the basic services, and traditional publishing. What I don't like about hybrids? Well, I don't mind that they're more expensive, because they do. If they're a good company, they do give you more services and more attention. What I don't like about it is that they often publish your book under their imprint name. They have all your files. You don't have the files. You have to go through them if you wanna make a change when your royalties are being paid. They don't come to you directly. This is not the case with all, but with many. But they go to them because they're taking a back-end piece. Not all hybrid companies do that, but some of them do that, which I just think is ridiculous. When I pay you $10,000 upfront to design my book and you're still getting money off the back-end Absolutely not. That's a no me. Red flags with either any of them to me is if you don't own your ISBN, you don't wanna work with that company. The ISBN should be yours. You should have the choice to publish it under your own imprint or company name or your name. However you want to publish it. If you wanna choose under their company, great. If you don't, that should be your choice. Anybody who is who can not show you examples of their work that you can go and look at yourself is a problem. I always say if you don't know someone who worked with them, you probably shouldn't work with them, and I know that that's tough on businesses. But you gotta talk to an author who's used their services and see what their experience was. If you can't communicate with them meaning they have no way for you to talk to them like when you need to, that's a red flag. That's a problem for me. If you look at the examples or the portfolio on their website and it doesn't look like you want your book to look like. Go the other way. That's not the company for you. Or, if everything looks the same, that's not the company for you. You don't want your book to look like it's come out of a mold with everyone else's book.

Bobbi: 27:20

It's funny that you say that. Just an example of that, this red flag company. They sent me all these examples of book covers and these add-ons were at exorbitant prices. And then I looked at their range of book covers and I thought no. But then I went onto Amazon just to see and I typed in self-help and all the same covers are up there. So they've obviously gone and just taken examples, but it was all the same. And along with that it just makes me laugh. It's like silhouettes of women with butterflies coming out of their head. But from listening to you, you know, life doesn't often give us what we want, but it gives us what we need. And from this disaster which actually probably was a blessing in disguise, I then went and went onto this group. I found out so much information. I purchased Atticus, the formatting thing. I'd had my manuscript done. I purchased Atticus and then I learned how to do my book covers with the templates from KDP and with Canva and I purchased a batch of ISBNs and I've gone from there and I've got my own imprint. I learned what an imprint was because I never knew what they were talking about. But I feel more in control now and you're right when I want to make a change, I just go back in and just tweak something and then I upload that file and it could not be easier. Now, with Atticus for anyone who was listening you can actually type your manuscript and format it and it has all these templates that you can choose and you can put your own pictures in. And the great thing is that you can then download it as the correct file for KDP and it gives you all the different sizes and all that sort of thing. So it's $150 investment, but, as I said to my husband, look, I'm gonna go ahead and do this. They have a 30 day money back guarantee and it has been absolutely well worth it. So I think for me as a newbie, it was such a good place to start and I think you've got to make it easier for yourself. So, as you said before, the fear there's a lot of fear around, I guess, the unfamiliar when it and not only that, but also the rejection that you said. And what if I don't get it out there? I read on your website that you have some myths about being an author and getting your book out there. Can you share a couple of those myths about?

Candice: 30:01

writing. There's so many, and I think it's so funny because media has given us a lot of these myths too. So, like you will see, like the isolated author sitting in a cabin, they've got a glass of brown liquor or a mug of coffee or something. They're just typing away, right, and they never talk to anyone. And then they rip out the pages from the typewriter and they got this manuscript and it's this genius work and that's it. That is the biggest myth of all, because if you look at just any of your favorite books, and whether they're traditionally published or independently published, no one writes a book alone. It is a team effort to produce a great book. If a client is working with Harper Collins, for example, they've got me coaching them through their book. They've got the Harper Collins acquiring editor. They've got the Harper Collins copywriting copy editor and they've got the Harper Collins proofreader helping them make this a great book. It wasn't necessarily great and they sent it in right. And if you're working independently, you've got to be the one to put together that team. We don't have to have all those layers, but you've got to have someone edit your mainstream spell check is not enough right and talk to people about your book. You do not have to write in isolation. It is a solitary process when you're writing it. But if you have a friend or you have a colleague or coach that coaches you for something else, even you can bounce your ideas off that person. No one's going to, that's the other thing. Everyone's worried about their book idea being stolen. Friends who cannot copyright an idea no one can steal it and the book that you produce. If you and I, bobby, wrote a book on the same topic, they would be nothing alike because our experiences are totally different. So you don't have to write in isolation big myth and you definitely don't have to worry about people stealing your book idea. Share your idea with your trusted circle so you can get the feedback you need, for sure.

Bobbi: 31:56

I just was thinking. The reason why I pointed at myself and started laughing was when you said the myth is that you're sitting at a typewriter by the window overlooking the ocean and having a glass of wine. I once dated a guy in my early 20s because he looked like that. I met him I was traveling in the US and he was still in college and a friend of mine had to go to an orientation and I met this dude and it was like a wet, rainy day and he was wearing one of those cable knit sweaters with a big collar and he was outside smoking this cigarette. And he back in the 90s, when nobody had an issue, I think I had like a long curly hair and I thought, oh my God, I'm going to marry you and we're going to live in Ireland and you're going to sit there and write and type your book and we're going to have that existence. So I fall for things like that.

Candice: 32:49

We all do, we absolutely all do.

Bobbi: 32:52

Yeah, we dated a couple of minutes and then that was it. But yes, oh, my goodness. Well, look, I just want to actually ask because I probably should ask this and it's a question that you probably get all the time what's your favorite book?

Candice: 33:07

Oh gosh, that is really impossible. That is like impossible to pick one favorite book. But if I had to say like, okay, this is a book that I'm going to read over and over again, I would read Toni Morrison's Paradise over and over again in terms of like fiction, like literary fiction. But I'm not like a book snob. I read across the board. So like I know this is controversial right now, so just take me for what I am right here. I've read the Harry Potter book series many times over with my kids alone, etc. So I love that series. I also have nonfiction books that I'm completely in love with. There's a memoir called I Know why the Cage Bird Sings that I read early in my like young adult life. That left a big impact on me. So I mean, I really feel like books changed my life and saved my life at different times, you know. So they different books have a special place in my heart for a different reason.

Bobbi: 34:04

Yeah. So if you were to give an emptiness to mom a bit of advice who is thinking, yeah, I think I really would like to run with the idea of writing and memoir or a self-help book or whatever is inside of her that she wishes to share with the world, what bit of advice can you give her?

Candice: 34:24

First and foremost, to trust yourself. Trust that if you're writing a memoir, your story is enough for a memoir. I have yet to meet a person whose story was not enough for a memoir Never have met one and I hear some people give the advice to not everyone should write a memoir. Well, no, but everyone does have a story that's sufficient for a memoir. So trust yourself that you could do that. And if you want to write a book, that's like a self-help book and teaching someone to do something trust yourself with that, too. You accomplish. You didn't get to emptiness stage in life without accomplishing some things and learning some things along the way. So, whatever it is that you want to write about, trust yourself to be able to do it and then go find the resources you need to make.

Bobbi: 35:01

I love it and this conversation has been so insightful and can't wait to jump onto your website, jump onto your socials and really discover what you're able to do for current or new authors, because I think we, as you said before, everyone has a support network and I would love the information that you can provide and the obviously services to be something that is on my bookshelf. Pardon the pun.

Candice: 35:32

No pun, no pardon needed.

Bobbi: 35:36

Thank you. Well, we'll stick all your links on the podcast episode description and so people can get in touch with you. Where do you hang out most on social?

Candice: 35:47

I hang out most on Instagram, but I am having fun on threads right now. I have to say.

Bobbi: 35:52

Anyway, we'll can't just all the very best. I will keep in touch with you because I do think there's probably more that we can speak about in the future, and I'd love to have you back on the podcast.

Candice: 36:03

Thank you so much, bobby, this was a pleasure.

Bobbi: 36:05

Oh, I'm so glad and it's lovely to meet you and I'm glad your computer is now updated All right and for all our listeners. Thank you so much for joining us on Fly Mumfly and we'll connect again next time From emptiness to personal.

Speaker 1: 36:20

Best, let's fly, mum fly.