Real Mothers of The Empty Nest: Jo's Story of an Aussie Mother's Tale of Transcontinental Parenthood

Welcome to this episode of Fly, mom, fly. Now, this is the second in our Real Housewives of the Empty Nest series and today I warmly welcome Jo to the podcast. You're the second lady to step up and say, yeah, I will share what it's like for me, what it's been like challenges, triumphs, and I think the beauty in this is is that they're real stories from the everyday woman. So can I? I mean we haven't even finished the podcast, or at the very least started, but I just already want to say thank you, thank you, thank you for coming on, because I think, for all of us having that sense that there are others who are feeling the same or doing the same, it allows us a sense of belonging and community, and you are helping in my mission to allow no Empty Nest mom to be left behind. So thank you so much for coming on today. I know it can be a bit of a daunting task.

Never having done this before, I never have done this before, so I'm definitely stepping out of my comfort zone. I said I've climbed mountains, but I've never done a podcast.

Oh, my God. Well, trust me, this is going to be so much easier, and I think I said to you a little while back, if you brought a glass of wine to the podcast, even though it's 12 o'clock, that's absolutely fine with me. In fact, if anyone wants to wear their pajamas and jump on at any stage, that's absolutely fine with me. So I guess, for any shared experience, it's probably good to go back to the foundation of what brought you to be an Empty Nest mom, and that would be your family. So tell us a bit about your family. Well, my family.

Obviously I was originally from Australia, so born in Melbourne but then moved to Brisbane, probably when I was about eight, which back then in probably the late 70s, like in Australia, that felt like you were moving overseas. Both all my grandparents were Melbourne, aunts and uncles everything in Melbourne. So my mom and dad sort of flitted the state and moved to Brisbane and so that was a huge thing. And so then the weird thing is, when I think about it now, is that we were only there for three years. So my mom and dad had like a flower wholesaling business so we used to like get flowers up from Melbourne and then help put them in like bunches and then drop them off at all the florists all around Brisbane. So it was about three or four years and so I was at school then and then for some reason they just sort of had this little midlife thing is like, you know, the business was getting so big and they're like well, we either grow or we do something with our lives. So what they ended up doing was they sold the business, sold our house, and they actually bought a custom made caravan and a four wheel drive, and so I was 11 at the point and my younger brother was 10. And we packed up and we traveled around Australia for two years. It's sort of so yeah. So I did like distance education. There was no such thing as home school back there. So we did distance education. We just if we liked a place, we just stopped. You know, we'd end up North of Keans for a few months. Dad got some cash money we went to. Then we got to Alice Springs. They needed a bit more money. So I actually went to school in Alice Springs for about nine months and then it was time to. You know he got offered a job in Darwin. But we're like you know, we got to finish this trip, so off we went again At that point. I did so before. I did distance education through the Queensland Department of Education like it's. I had a teacher and everything because there was no home school then, and then Alice Springs School, and then I did like distance ed through the Alice Springs School, the air, which a lot of us Aussies might know, that Is that like on Skippy, where Sonny Hammond has the little radio and his teacher speaks to him over the radio? Well we, didn't have the radio, we just had got books and then we tore out. We filled out the pages in the books and we tore them and we mailed them back to Alice Springs.

Isn't it funny how our technology has advanced in what is 35 years or so. That has now allowed us to do everything like this? Where we're speaking, you're in Houston, I'm in Cincinnati. Wow, that's crazy.

But it was like all the other kids on the country stations had the old CB radio, but because we were travelling around and then we went to obviously then through WA and stuff like that, and then it came to the point I was starting high school and mum and dad were like, oh, which place did we like the most? And so we're like, oh well, we like Queensland, we like the warm weather, so it was between Bunderberg and Keynes and so we went to Keynes. So, yeah, so you know, and thankfully, with my parents gave up, even when we're in Brisbane we would still like we go up to the Whitsundays and have holiday. Or I even think now when I was in Melbourne, mum and dad gave up so much like we did a cruise when I was like six, so I was on a flight Back in the 70s mum and dad would send me and my brother back to Melbourne by ourselves on the plane, unaccompanied miners. You know, it was sort of having that little bit of upbringing and that's why everyone and so then, you know, went to high school in cans, went to college in Brisbane, back up to central Queensland, and that's sort of that's where I met my husband. I was actually working at the mines. I'm a dental therapist by trade. All of those Aussies know the little caravans that go around fixing everyone's teeth in the primary schools. And so, yeah, I was working in central Queensland, met my husband out there. He's a. He was working for a Hatterpillar dealer at that point. Yeah, and so, yeah, we were out there for eight years. I had my kids in Mekhine, so eight years is the longest place still to this day, from when I got married To then my next stage. We moved to the US, so that's the longest time I've lived there once.

Yeah, this is what I'm really interested in. So I'm wondering if the experience that your parents gave you as a child whench your thirst or, I guess I guess built on your sense of adventure for when you found yourself over in the US. Tell me about raising kids in the US versus Australia when your kids were younger.

Well, so we moved to the US. My kids were only one in three, so they've I've never really. I mean we're in the mining town. I mean it was great we're in a small mining town, but I think what my parents sorted, you know, moving around, it sort of taught you that you just got to make the best of where you are at that moment. You know, and I think, and especially now, like as I explain my next part of the life, is that you sort of like you know you just got to get out there and do stuff for yourself. I think that's sort of the biggest thing. Like we're in a small mining town of like 3000 people. So, you know, if you didn't, you know you had to try activities. You had to do this. Like I'd never played netball before but I'm like, well, all the other there was all these other ladies playing on like, well, why not? But it was more the social aspect. You know, like you didn't want to have that wall saying, oh no, I'm no good at it or anything like that. So you sort of like it's just getting out of that comfort zone and just okay, I'll give it a go, and you never know who you'll meet. So I'm a big, I'm very good at that, because I'm like you know I'll go somewhere and it's like if I you never again. You just don't know who you'll meet at these Meeting. So so I think yes. So the kids were one in three. I have two boys and it was a great life like where we were. But my husband was getting itchy feet. He's originally from Broken Hill in New South Wales and his parents moved around with mining as well. So we're just like do we go to Brisbane? No opportunities, where else can we go from here? I was at the top level of my job and an opportunity came to move to Illinois and so we just like, and I have to go back. We actually came to the US for a honeymoon for like six weeks in in back in 1996, because when are we ever going to get to the US? You know that's those things that it's like a bucket list thing, right, and we actually even went to the town, like we were in. We moved to pure Illinois, that's the caterpillar headquarters and so, and we actually went there for our honeymoon back in 96, which is sort of everyone reminds me, that's. So it was sort of quite funny that we end up in this town. But we rock up. The company we were with we went with caterpillar at that point Wouldn't move anything for us, so we could just bring air freight. At that point it was like one cubic meter. We got it stretched out to three cubic meters of air freight, which many boxes so. So we had the town's biggest garage sale. Like you know, our whole house was up for garage sale, like everything that was in it, because we couldn't take anything with us. So, yeah, so so we sort of started a fresh then in in Illinois, my oldest son started kindergarten, my youngest son was so I wasn't allowed to work because of visas. So yeah, that's sort of the stay at home, mom, because you know I've been working part time, all that you know, although little.

I was just gonna say you and I are in a very similar situation now, where we're both Australians, based in the US and Our two children are on another continent. So your boys obviously grew up in the US and now they're doing. They've grown, you're an emptiness mom and they are overseas. Tell us where they are and how you first managed that Difference, because it's such a difference, the difference of them not only no longer being in the surrounds of your home, not even in the same state, not even in the same country, but how did you cope with them being overseas?

Well, we moved to Switzerland in 2014 with my husband's work, and then our visa expired during COVID, and so that's why we've been back in Houston now two years. So we all moved over there as a family my oldest son, you know. They went through both. The kids went through high school, but then it got to the point where you know, once they turn 18, they're not eligible to be on our visas anymore. So then we had to find alternative. Where can they legally stay? And at that point they can could legally stay, because it's much easier for younger people to stay in Switzerland. We had to leave, and then we all have Australian passports. So, yeah, so we had to find alternative ways of trying to keep them in Switzerland. At that point, my oldest son was in college in the UK. My youngest son had just started college in Switzerland, and so, yeah, knowing the fact that we were meant to come over here into the US in 2020, well then, covid sort of put a bit of a banner in the works, I suppose. But then we got delayed nine months, so we got to be. So for us, that was a really special period, because one without having it's trying to think the positives that come out are negatives and for us, the positives. We got delayed in Switzerland for nine months. We got to spend extra nine months with the kids, but we also were able to arrange them to get their permanent residency in Switzerland was independent of us and independent of each other. So if one stays, one leaves. They can do whatever they want, so without having that extra time. So for me, when I often think of during the pandemic, but for us, that was a really big game changer, for us as a family, because I think if we were forced to move back in 2020, back to the US, I don't really know what we would have done actually with the kids, because my oldest son wasn't eligible actually to stay in Switzerland until August of 2020. And at that point we would have had to have left. So it was just a few little different things, but just being in different countries, sorting out legalities, immigration, health insurance, bank accounts, but I sort of feel thankfully because of having WhatsApp, facetime, whatever, and then my parents are still in Australia. So I feel like I'm in the middle now, but I think you're just trying to. You're only across the ocean. For me, that's not really that far right now, so it's sort of like I can get a direct flight to London or something like that from here. So I think that was a big thing of where we moved when we returned to the US. Okay, what's the airport like? Because for me that's a huge big thing of like okay, does it have in national flights? Can I get to the kids? Can I get to the parents, you know.

So I understand that At the moment it's pretty much 24 hours door-to-door from Cincinnati to Sydney. However, I often think what would it be like if I was in LA or if I was, for instance, in Houston, where they have direct flights? I know this is an empty nest topic and conversation, but I would like to focus on the implications of you being away from your parents. What does that feel like? You mentioned you do have a younger brother. Is he back in Australia and how do you cope with aging parents back in your home country, which is so far away?

Yeah, that was yeah. So yeah, my brother's in Adelaide and mum and dad are just in Northern Melbourne now. So I think that's been hard because then they'd actually just been over here in June and July to Houston and I hadn't seen them for four years. I haven't actually been back to Australia for about six years. It's just with high school and being in Switzerland that little bit further away to Australia, it's a little bit more harder to get to. So I think that does play on my mind. Like when I saw them they were over here for two months in June, july and so seeing them being that little bit older, it was like okay and I think. But now being back in the US where I am, I feel like I'm closer to them. It's like again sort of feeling in the middle, but I know that's a difficult thing and it's not as easy for them to travel as well.

Now, you seem to be a really positive person, and no doubt you have experienced emotions that get the better of you, where you're in a place, like we all do, where things seem hopeless and helpless and hard and challenging. You do come across, though, with someone who is quite content. Are you able to share with anyone listening what would be your go-to strategies for getting back to the space you appear to be in right now, when times are a little bit tough?

Meeting other, especially mums, I think, meeting other mums that are in this similar situation, or kids who have gone overseas or even, I suppose, out of state in the US, just sort of having some type of purpose, I think. But I think trying to but then also doing stuff for yourself. So I think that was a big thing for me where I traveled around all of my life with my husband or you're looking after the kids. When I was in Switzerland, that was my main focus was stay at home. I was volunteering at school. I did a lot of stuff at school, driving them back and forth to school. So then moving here was like one we moved country and two as an empty nester. So I think it was a bit of a I shock at the same point to know that the kids weren't in the bedrooms. Like you know, we're in a new house, right, so it's not like it's their old bedroom. So there was so many different changes where it sort of felt sort of a bit like a holiday type of thing, I think, lee. So it's sort of like is this sort of really for real, you know, like the kids aren't here? Yeah, I don't know, but maybe I think because when they go away to college. I think that sort of helps that a little bit more Because I think of me as in now like empty nested now, as in they're nearly finished college, you know they're sort of getting more wings to fly away, because I think at college they're still part of us. They're just not living with us necessarily Because you stay and might still be paying fees for this and this. I think because I moved around so much when I was younger that I think I do a lot of stuff maybe for, like myself, I don't rely on a lot of people, like, if I want to go somewhere, I'll go there. You know, if somebody says if I ask someone, they go, oh, I don't feel like going, I'm still going to go Because I think you've got to just again just get outside that box and I think moving around was just doing that. And I've met, you know, some really amazing people here in Houston. Like, again, kids are all at college or kids have grown and left work or living out a country, living out a state, so you sort of have that little bit of a bond. I think for me sometimes it's sort of more, it's slightly different just being out of state Because I can't like you and I, we just can't get in a car and drive. So I think that's where it's sort of like. You know, it's a little bit more of arranging time to see them or them to come and see you, but I think I'm still very grateful that they want to come and see me, so or I go and stay with them so, but I think you know, with them now they're in that like world back when I was like sort of moving around a little bit, because everyone asked them where, where. So where are you from? Yes, they have Australian passports, but they have a funky accent, a bit of Aussie. They have a bit of an Aussie mix with a bit of American, because they were nearly here 10 years in the US for grade school and then mixed with a bit of English, but a French. You know, it's like a, it's like a like a washing machine type language.

There you mentioned about what has really helped you has been meeting other people like you with kids that they made in Houston. Are you able to share to help someone else who doesn't really know where to start looking for people in this phase of life? Were there any groups in particular or any places that you focused on to get out there and meet these kinds of people?

I'm very outdoors person. I'm not into crafts, I'm not. I'm definitely not a crafty type person. I love outdoors, hiking, walking, things like that. So so when I was here, I found this. It's called Meetup. I'd never heard of it before I moved to the US and so I just looked up like walking groups, and so I found like one. You know, we were staying in an apartment, we had one car. We still only have one car. I walk a lot, I walk around everywhere, but it was sort of I found this group and I went, you know, and again, you know, there's like a lot of Americans. I think that's important as an expat, to meet lots of different people. And so I just rocked up and just said, oh yeah, you know, they just give you a. What's really good is that the meet up. They give you like a meeting spot. And then how long it's, you know it's going to be a two hour walk, we're going to walk six miles. And so you know, I just like walked in, just chit chat. Oh, you know, are you new? You know you may not even get the contact details, but it just gives you some purpose of like oh, wonder when the next walk is going to be or where. And then there was another I found like an expat coffee group. We have a pretty big Australian community here, so finding them as well, then meet up. Actually found there's actually a Houston empty Nesta group. So so, yeah, so it was just this lady during COVID. I'm an American lady who moved here from, I think, dallas or and didn't really know anyone and started up this group. So she organizes so much stuff. Sometimes I'm like I don't know how she finds the time to fit everything in. But you can just, you can just sort of join these groups and just sign up. There's no like then commitment, like you just say yes, I'm going to come, say to luncheons, and then everyone's been in that same situation where they're that lonely person walking through that front door and there's a table of 12 people who might sort of all know each other. But you've got to get down and sit down and introduce yourself, introduce yourself to the people sitting next to you across the, because everyone they're underlying are there because the kids have left home.

I love this theme that you are carrying through all of this, as I listen to you that you've just got to be brave, make the choice and take the step. Yeah, yeah.

And I think that's a that's a huge thing, and I know it's not for everyone. I mean, even here there's a lot of women that are afraid to take that little step. But I think just take little steps at a time, just do one little group at a time or find something that you enjoy, like, say, the craft, whatever you like to do, a hobby of some sort, and just, but I think, meet up. I thought the meet up was just amazing here and I've signed up to a heap of groups. I haven't necessarily been to a lot of them, but it's sort of like, well, just, you know, that's why they do these meet up groups for people to just it's not just for a set group, so anyone can go at any time, so you can go like maybe once every six months, but that, but I think, just if you go to one little event, you never know who you might meet there. You might have somebody who might live up the road from you, or somebody who's got kids at the same college or. But you're not going to know that until you just take that step and some. For some people it's a huge step, and I think for me, because I've taken so many big steps in my life.

It's sort of like, well, you don't know unless you go Would you say that once you take one little step then you've already done it. So the fear is dissipated. Then you take another little step and another and soon taking these little steps become your new normal and that fear is eradicated around trying something new because you're now used to it, you now know that it's not life threatening and they will be welcomed and hopefully make some good connections.

Almost definitely. I think it's small step. I always introduce myself when you know, again, that's an even a big step for some people. People is like you know, sitting down and saying, oh hi, I'm Joe, you know, and then obviously the accent they're like oh, you're not from around here. So you know, it's a bit of an icebreaker, but you know, just it's just thinking of different questions that you could say oh so you know, how old are your kids? Like, are they at college or are they, you know, because everyone's usually in, especially say like an empty nest group, like say like you know even the group you've started, which is like amazing. So it's like you know everyone's still there because the kids have gone somewhere. So it's just sort of creating, just starting that little bit of a conversation. But I think the meetup is really great, but yeah, it's just, it's just trying to find the group sometimes. That's what I even I found is like you know, sometimes you might search empty nest and it might give you like a bird's nest or something I'm not quite sure you know like, or you've got to really sort of be specific with sometimes the words, but but you never know who you might meet someone and they go I've you joined this group and I'm like I've never heard of that group, you know so, yeah, yeah.

So then it's really networking, and I think one thing that we as humans all do, that transcends any language difficulties or barriers, is simply just to walk in, smiling. That is such an opening to conversation, to building rapport, making connections. So, even if you don't know what to say and my smile would probably be walking in awkwardly smiling, I'm going, oh my god, okay, okay, but it makes you look approachable straight away. So, even if you're not feeling it on the inside, act as if you're happy to be there on the outside and you will soon make connections.

Yeah, Really good thing. Especially with Meetup, there's always a host, so there's always somebody hosting the lunch or the activity or whatever. So you can always send them a private message and just say, hey, I'm new to town or I'm new to the group, this will be my first time, and then they'll often send you a reply. So you've got somebody to look out. For. That's what I've noticed since I've been here and it's just trying to get that familiar face when you walk in and I'm like, oh yeah, that's the lady who, that's Robin, or you know who I, you know who I'd messaged and she'd go oh, Joe, and she's got her face because Meetup's really good. You've got to have a photo. So you've got to have it so you can sort of it's not like you don't have a cartoon or a different photo, so you've got to face this so you can sort of oh yeah, I recognize you from you know the picture. So, oh, thanks for having me, and then she'll bring you in. Oh, this is Joe, Joe, da, da da. So I think that's. I think that's really good. That's why I quite like the Meetup. Again, I've never heard of Meetup until I moved back, so I think that's a huge, huge, big thing with just trying to get out that way.

I love this information that you have brought today because you've touched on who you need to be in order to personally succeed in its phase of life. But you've given us really good practical information too about what Meetup's like, because I know a lot of people aren't really that familiar. My husband in the 1990s when he moved to Australia from the US he was from Illinois as, oh no, sorry Indiana, oh my goodness. He was from near Illinois. He knew no one so he would do these Meetups and American expats in Sydney or tennis players or something like that and he just said it saved him because here he was at the time he was around 40 in a new city. Where do you start? So I think that's really valuable information and I just want to thank you so much and coming on board today and sharing your real story and who you are and what makes you tick. And what I've loved about the vein of this topic is that there is so much inspiration in it that you authentically can you know you're not selling anything, you're just talking about who you are and the choices you've made, and I think what you've given our audience today will be invaluable. So I really appreciate that.

Yeah, no, it's thanks for having me on. I'm glad to share and I think you know just people just get out there and just go and meet people or follow your passion. I think that's one thing you know, like a lot of us give up a lot when our kids, until the time that they leave school, and I think that's, I think that's a lot of people you know like you're sort of that number one person, and I think that's me is finding myself and like I've actually got time to do what I want to do now. So I think that's really. I mean, I love to travel, so I'm like traveling and so say it's just, it's just little things like that now, where, and I'm like you know I'm not having to work around school schedules or or holiday schedules or you know just different things. So I think it's just you just got to also just think you just got to do for yourself as well. Look, I'm yourself because you've given up so much of yourself. Well, I think of like for the last 23 years or whatever, that I put myself second, you know. But that's what sometimes we do as a mum, right, well, that's, you know, a lot of us mums do that. So it's and I think, yeah, it's such a big change for everyone is just to try and it's a totally different life and but I think you know we will just again just take small steps and nothing comes easy and nothing comes quickly. So you know, we've been here two years and you know I still I'm still meeting people, but then you know, it's just still getting out and just creating, and I think what's important is create lots of different groups. I've got a different groups, don't sort of rely on the one group but sort of expand, you know, to maybe, like I do, different walking groups and we have a few different expat groups and so it's sort of like, so you're not seeing the same people all the time, so you're really mixed up. Yeah, I just actually joined like a women's like Chamber of Commerce and you know, again, that was I've just been a one. So I just I'm like, oh so, yeah, I was a new person, so, but you know, I've had a coffee with a lady who was sitting at my table, so she reached out do you want to catch up for coffee? So you know it was. So it's just those little things, because I think everyone's sometimes interested in everyone's story and how people got here.

And the takeaway for me today is you've got to be in it to win it. So thanks, Joe.

Great. I hope all the mums out there just take small steps. But I think this community, like we're all there for everyone, Everyone's in a totally different circumstance. So I think that's one of the big things is that we can just sort of assist. But you know, if anyone's in Houston, feel free to reach out.

Well, thank you to our listeners too, and I know we have ladies in the Facebook group tuning in live. So thank you so much for connecting with us, and we will see you next time on Fly, mum Fly.